Please Do It Right From The Beginning (Italian Translation)

"Advice is like castor oil, easy to give, but dreadful to take." Josh Billings
“Advice is like castor oil, easy to give, but dreadful to take.” Josh Billings

Dear FHWS reader, I have to be blunt but in no way do I mean to be impolite. Many times I have read or heard a non-Saudi say something along the lines of, “It is their right to marry whomever they want and the Saudi government has no right to prohibit that”. This is true and I agree with it but so far, Allah has decreed that the Saudi government put restrictions on Saudi/non-Saudi marriages. And whether we like it or not, we may not always understand the hukm behind it or have patience with it.

“Allah, the Almighty says, which means, ‘And it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.’ (1) In this Qur’anic verse, there are several judgments, meanings and benefits for the servant. If the servant knows that misfortune can produce a desirable thing, and that the desirable thing can produce a misfortune, he would not feel secure against the harm that can come from delight, and he would not lose hope of delight to come from harm, for he does not know the outcomes of things. Verily, it is Allah Who knows about that which the servant does not know.” (2)

One of the reasons why FHWS was set up was to provide advice to non-Saudi/Saudi couples intending to marry. It has been a repeated refrain on the blog, in public forums and in (non-profit) private consultations that the marriage permission process is wrong Islamically BUT you must obey the law or you may find yourself in unfavorable circumstances should you try to bypass this law. The laws have changed a great deal within the past ten years and the consequences for getting caught have become more severe. Unless you have a solid wasta to help you circumvent the red tape, its tough. Until Saudi Arabia makes it easy on non-Saudi/Saudi marriages, it would probably be in your best interests to play by the rules and insha’Allah you will be blessed.

In light of my own marriage permission experience which took a long time to rectify alhamdullah, I have maintained the stance that if you want to marry a Saudi, please do it right from the beginning according to the instructions of the Saudi government. This entails applying for the marriage permission at the emarah, waiting for it to be approved while making du’a and utilizing all halal resources, marrying and THEN having children. We do not know what could happen in the future so I can not in good conscious recommend anything contrary to that.

A case in point: what if a Saudi husband wants to return to live in Saudi Arabia because that is the only place he can get a good job to provide for his family? He and the child(ren) can go but the non-Saudi wife can’t. Then if he tries to apply for the marriage permission to start the process for her to come with him, he will have to admit to the government that they had a child(ren) and were married without permission. What if it gets rejected? What if he gets fined 100,000SR and punished? That is just one scenario. You can find other scenarios throughout the articles on this blog.

If you decide to exercise your right of marrying without permission from the Saudi government, be prepared for the likelihood of a broken heart or a broken home. But you can’t blame anyone but yourself because you have made your bed, now you must lie in it.

“They that will not be counseled, cannot be helped. If you do not hear reason, she will rap you on the knuckles.” Benjamin Franklin

If I have offended anyone, please accept my apologies and forgive me. May Allah help and guide us all ameen.

This post has also been made into a page, Do It Right, as a quick reference for anyone who is in a dilemma on whether to marry with or without the Saudi marriage permission.

Please note that an Italian translation by A.P. has been added to Katherine And Esam’s Story.

Thank you, Tara Umm Omar

Footnotes:

1. Surah Al-Baqarah 2:216
2. Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah

Photo Credit: WikiMedia Commons

_____BEGIN ITALIAN TRANSLATION_____

Per Piacere Fate Le Cose Nel Modo Giusto Fin Dall’inizio
Di Tara Umm Omar
3 Luglio 2013
Traduzione Italiana di A.P.

Cari lettori di FHWS, devo essere diretta ma non intendo assolutamente essere maleducata. Molte volte ho letto o sentito un/a non-saudita dire qualcosa del tipo “E’ loro diritto sposare chi vogliono e il governo saudita non ha il diritto di proibire ciò”. Questo è vero e sono d’accordo, ma finora Dio ha stabilito che il governo saudita metta delle restrizioni ai matrimoni tra suditi e non-sauditi. E che ci piaccia o no, potrebbe essere che non capiamo sempre la regola religiosa (hukm) che ci sta dietro né abbiamo pazienza con questa regola.

“Dio, l’Onnipotente, dice, ‘Orbene, è possibile che abbiate in avversione una cosa che tuttavia è per voi un bene; ed è possibile che amiate una cosa che tuttavia è per voi nociva. Dio sa, e voi non sapete’ .(1) In questo verso del Corano vi sono parecchi giudizi, significati e benefici per il servo. Se il servo sa che la sfortuna può produrre una cosa desiderabile, e che la cosa desiderabile può produrre una sfortuna, non si sentirebbe al sicuro contro il danno che può provenire dal piacere, e non perderebbe la speranza di un piacere che provenga da un danno, poiché non conosce l’esito delle cose. In verità, è Dio che conosce ciò che il servo non conosce”. (2)

Una delle ragioni per cui FHWS è stato creato è stata fornire consigli a coppie non-saudite/saudite che intendano sposarsi. Si è ripetuto come un ritornello sul blog, in forum pubblici e in consulti privati (senza scopo di lucro) che la procedura per il permesso di matrimonio è islamicamente sbagliata MA bisogna obbedire alla legge altrimenti ci si potrebbe trovare in circostanze sfavorevoli qualora di tentasse di bypassare questa legge. Le leggi sono molto cambiate nel corso degli ultimi dieci anni e le conseguenze per essere stati colti in fallo sono diventate più severe. A meno che non si abbia un wasta valido che aiuti ad aggirare la burocrazia, è difficile. Fino a quando l’Arabia Saudita non faciliterà i matrimoni tra non-sauditi e sauditi, avete probabilmente tutto l’interesse ad agire secondo le regole e a Dio piacendo riceverete una benedizione.

Alla luce della mia esperienza con il permesso di matrimonio la cui rettifica a Dio piacendo ha richiesto molto tempo, ho sostenuto l’opinione che se si desidera sposare un/a saudita, per piacere fate le cose nel modo giusto fin dall’inizio, in base alle istruzioni del governo saudita. Ciò include fare domanda per il permesso di matrimonio presso l’emarah, attendere che venga approvato e nel frattempo pregare e ricorrere a tutte le risorse consentite (halal), sposarsi e POI avere figli. Non sappiamo cosa può succedere in futuro perciò in coscienza non posso raccomandare nulla di contrario a tutto ciò.

Un esempio significativo: cosa succede se un marito saudita vuole tornare a vivere in Arabia Saudita perchè è quello l’unico posto in cui può trovare un buon lavoro per mantenere la sua famiglia? Lui e i figli possono andare là, ma la moglie non-saudita non può. Allora se lui tenta di fare domanda per il permesso di matrimonio per iniziare la procedura perchè lei possa andare con lui, lui dovrà ammettere di fronte alle istituzioni governative che hanno avuto figli e si sono sposati senza permesso. E se la domanda viene respinta? E se lui viene multato di un importo pari a 100.000 rial e punito? Questo è solo uno scenario. Si possono trovare altri scenari negli articoli di questo blog.

Se si decide di esercitare il proprio diritto di sposarsi senza il permesso del governo saudita, bisogna essere preparati a che verosimilmente si spezzi un cuore o si spezzi una casa. Ma non si può dare la colpa ad altri che a se stessi, perchè ci si è fabbricati il letto nel quale ora bisogna giacere.

“Coloro che non riceveranno consigli, non potranno essere aiutati. Se non senti ragione, lei stessa ti picchierà le nocche”. Benjamin Franklin.

Se ho offeso qualcuno, per cortesia accettate le mie scuse e perdonatemi. Possa Dio aiutarci e guidarci tutti. Amen.

Note:

1. Surah Al-Baqarah 2:216 (Il Corano. Traduzione e apparati critici di Gabriele Mandel. UTET. 2009)
2. Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah

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Tara Umm Omar

American married to a Saudi.

8 thoughts on “Please Do It Right From The Beginning (Italian Translation)”

  1. I totally agree with you. We do have messed up regulations here in KSA but above all its law and obeying the law is a must.
    People tend to forget that everything is in the hands of Allah if Allah wants it to happen it will happen no matter what.
    Being patient is the key as Allah said و اصبروا إن الله مع الصابرين
    “…and be patient. Indeed, Allah is with the patient.” [al-Anfal 8:46].

    Like

    1. I’m glad that you understand alhamdullah. One other thing that I did not bring forward because I thought it was too controversial, is the fatwa stating that we are not to rebel against the rulers. But its the same as saying that the laws must be obeyed so I left it out.

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      1. could it be that saudis tend to return home cause they do not have another citizenship?so they can not work in US or Canada or elsewhere..I married my wife 6yrs ago, and I have been living and working overseas since then;we own a home alhamdulilah..anyone aware of similar cases..I do not know if I would ever come back to live in Saudi because I have options..3potentialcitizenships..any comments?

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        1. Why would they give up their Saudi citizenship if they don’t have any another citizenship? I may have misunderstood you. I think part of the reason for the marriage permission is so that a non-Saudi spouse can legally live in Saudi Arabia with their Saudi spouse. So if the non-Saudi/Saudi couple never plans to live in Saudi Arabia, that is their choice but the current law is that a Saudi still needs permission to marry a non-Saudi except for GCC residents whether you will live in Saudi Arabia or in another country. Insha’Allah someone else has a better idea or solution.

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          1. They should not give up citizenship unless they have to. It is hard for a Saudi to immigrate because there are internal policies in place between Saudi and most Countries to prevent this from happening. Some countries deport Saudis when they apply for citizenship..especially if on a scholarship. if a Saudi was a dual citizen it is easier.They can get a working visa or even immigrate to the wife’s country of origin..most Saudis I met immiediately return home after scholarships..then apply for permission.I do not know anyone who lived abroad with his wife while waiting for permission.It is complicated..fear,security,..etc.on the other hand, I know Saudis who immigrated join the US army and never came back..that is why I would like to know if there are ppl out there married to non-Saudis and living abroad.

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  2. I have a question about all of this, maybe someone can answer. I divorced my Saudi Ex Husband because of abuse, and I know he didn’t get permission for our marriage, or even tell his family we were married. He is back in Saudi now, and I am in the states raising our child. I know that he finally told his family about our marriage and the baby while I was in the process of getting the divorce. A few months later, when it became clear that I wouldn’t take him back, he finally told them we split. Then he started threatening to take her away from me, and demanding to see pictures and hear news of her before I could post them on Facebook. He threatened if I didn’t comply, he’d come take her, either by hiring a lawyer or kidnapping. I know that he doesn’t have a legal ground to stand on in the US, because he was abusive, and threatening, and he left the country before the divorce proceedings, but I worry about him kidnapping her. He claims he tried to get approval for her to have dual citizenship, but I’m not sure what came of that.

    My question is this. Since our marriage was never sanctioned by the Saudi government, CAN he acknowledge her? What are his rights to her there, since he never got permission for our marriage? Any input or advice would be very helpful. Thank you!!

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    1. Since Maya is a Saudi…I defer to her to answer your questions. If she does not know then I will answer them to the best of my ability, with input from my husband.

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    2. What I understand from the Saudi law so far, he can’t take her to Saudi Arabia untill he got the birth certificate and show it up to the Saudi embassy .. Other wise.. He will not be able to take her to Saudi Arabia..
      Clerfying the point, he needs to go to the Saudi embassy to rocognise her as a Saudi of blood.. So he must show approves of that .. Normally they ask the merriage certificate and the birth one .. Or just the birth certificate .. More then that, he will never be able to take her into Saudi Arabia

      Hope that help

      Nawaf

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